| Author |
Message |
    
Nataliya Sotnikova
Username: Farit
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 13:46: | |
Dear Mr Halevi !
Thank you very much for extremely useful information on this site.
I need your advice: my close friend , a very active man 40 y o with a history of different infections (Staph. Aureus, etc.) and antibiotics and eczema+week digestion (week spleen, liver problems). The main issue is wind-damp-cold bi of one-two joints at a time. Bad energy seems moving from one joint to another, settling on one joint for several months acute and chronic episodes during 4 years, aggravated by wheather changes to cold, digestive problems, immune stimulation, exessive exercise; theres no much of yin deficiency, exept skin problems. He takes Theraflex, Wobenzim, Essentiale and Cetirizine, sometimes antibiotics , acupuncture weekly 3-2 points at a time: Sj6(sed.)and Gb 39 (even); Sp3 (ton.) and St 40 (sed.) and Sp 9 (sed.); moxa Bl 20, 23, Ren 4. Also Li 11 (sed), Bl 40 (sed), Sp 10 or 8 (even), Liv 2 and 3 (sed.). Takes herbs for several years angelica, nettle, acorus, viscum, viola , and taraxacum, earthworm etc.
Du Huo Ji Sheng Tang turned to be too hot and caused allergy, Liu Wei Di Huang Wan and Xiao Yao Wan didnt show quick results, Xiao Huo Luo Dan first caused movement of bad energy from one joint to others, but after that there was an improvement.
Eats a healthy diet for years brown rice, cooked vegetables, meat and fish without fat.
You recommend Qingluo Tongbi (a derivative of the more popular Shuguan Qingluo powder - is it suitable in this case? Besides unfortunately we cant find this medicine at orders@shizhen.co.uk and www.maxnature.com . Would you kindly inform us where to buy it by PayPal or its composition in grams. We could find only Shuguan Qingluo: rehmannia, ho-shou-wu, photinia, chin-chiu, campsis, euonymus, arisaema, wasp nest, earthworm.
What else can be done about this?
We are looking forward to hearing any of your ideas.
Thanks a lot .
Nataliya |
Kevin Grey
Username: Kevin
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 21:31: | |
This is a very timely post as I was about to ask about the TCM treatment of gout, which this sounds very much like. I have heard it referred to as Shi syndrome, otherwise I can find nothing about it in my text books. I assume Kid, Liv & Sp implications and damp heat, but this disease is so variable in how and why it presents in different individuals.
Nataliya: One thing I do know, if this is gout, there is a very idiosyncratic diet regime which needs to be followed very strictly to reduce purine levels and determine trigger foods (which vary in most sufferers). Proteins are severely restricted and excludes most meats and fish, as well as many other foods that one would normally consider very healthy e.g. oats, mushrooms, oily fish, to name but a few. See this link: http://www.acumedico.com/purine.htm
Fortunately the Western pathology (high uric acid blood levels) is well understood and much information is available online.
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Nataliya Sotnikova
Username: Farit
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 22:35: | |
Thank you for your considerations Kevin.
There's a very useful information somewhere here, that gout is a blood stagnation condition.
The western doctors are considering this opportunity right now, and want to make blood tests, but the patient must stop all the medicine for at least 1 week, and this is a problem, as weather is changing to dump and cold till December, what makes the condition worse.
As far as purines are concerned, the main menu is: brown rice, beef\muscles, hake fish, carrot, greens, beet root, potato - all well boiled, rye bread - crispy.
The onset of the illness was right after the immune stimulation+allergy + digestive problems.
Rheumatoid factor and C-reactive protein are negative, several years ago uric acid blood levels were rather high, the doctors are excluding numerous infections, a stool culture test will be ready soon.
Thank you. |
Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 13:01: | |
Hi Nataliya and Kevin,
The case in hand is not gout as far as I can judge from your post. It is probably a bi syndrome of the joints, affected by weather changes (wind, cold and dampness). In such cases, my strategy is to treat symptomatically the affected joint(s), when the pain starts. Use local points arround the affected joint + other points that might assist the treatment, e.g., Li-4 for shoulder pain in addition to Li-15/ Sj-14/ Jianneiling - etc. If the condition involves cold use plenty of moxa or fire-needling. Cupping is often beneficial, and in the case of blood stasis apply blood-cupping. In order for the treatment to work properly, you must be skilled in needle manipulation technique appropriate for painful syndromes. In between the painful attacks, you can treat the underlying cause. I.e., the kidney yang deficiency, any liver problems that you have found and so forth. If you do this skillfully, the attacks will gradually diminish and the pain will be reduced significantly. |
Nataliya Sotnikova
Username: Farit
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 13:36: | |
Dear Dr Shmuel Halevi!
Thank you for sharing you practical experience. Your advice is always of great importance for me!
That was very nice of you to guess that it is shoulder again.
The pain isn't very acute - likes warming massage.
I use Huici and bleeding etc.
Also I use Sp-5 (even+moxa or fire) + Li-4.(reduce) to stop pain.
Still I want to continue with herbs as he is afraid of needling, even painless. He responds to herbs very quickly and it helps to partially control digestion and bi. You recommend Qingluo Tongbi as i can understand in cases of blood and heat stagnation, would it be suitable in this case - wind-heat in the skin+wind-damp-cold bi? May be some other formulas?
Thank you again for so much of actual information.
You are the best.
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Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 16:17: | |
Nataliya, you may try this:
http://maxnature.stores.yahoo.net/mutwcoteaexg.html
Guan Jie Bi Tong
or, if you have someone that can prepare capsules from mixed herbal powder, I can post here for you a prescription I have devised, and it works very well for both gouty arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis and wandering joint pain, especially of the lower limbs. |
Nataliya Sotnikova
Username: Farit
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 17:42: | |
Dr Shmuel Halevi, thank you very much. I'm going to order it right now at Maxnature.
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Nataliya Sotnikova
Username: Farit
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 23:46: | |
P.S.
And post the prescription, please. I have no doubt it works wonderfully - like everything you advise.
Thank you. |
Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 19:42: | |
Here is the prescription:
quote:
Huang bai
. 9 gr
Cang zhu
.. 6
Xi xian cao
... 9
Hai feng teng
... 9
Dan shen
.. 9
Chuan niu xi
. 7
Sang ji sheng
9
Shu di huang
9
Shan zhu yu
. 9
Huang qi
.. 9
Yi zhi ren
. 6
Du zhong
. 12
Gui zhi
. 6
The herbs dosage within the formula should be tailored individually. The suggested dose of each herb in the formula is for an average case of gouty arthritis. |
Nataliya Sotnikova
Username: Farit
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 13:32: | |
Thank you for you generous support, Shmuel. |
Nataliya Sotnikova
Username: Farit
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 22:09: | |
Dear Shmuel, hope to get your advise. Using acupuncture since September (1-4 times a week) joints, digestion and allergy improved markedly. But splenomegalia left. As well as liver-spleen disharmony. Also I suspest stomach ulcers. The person felt so good in october, that didn't follow his strict diet and now he is having acute pancreatitis (it happens to him in this time of the year). And what I don't understand how it happened - WBC became twice low than normal. During sessions he might experience slight dryness in the mouth inspite of the fact that I used Sp-6 evenly or in tonification. Last period of time I chose among the points: Li-4, 11, Li-15, Sj-14, Pc-6,Sp-5, St-40,44 Liv-13,14, 2,3 - in sedation. Ren-12 (downwards) ,Bl-20,St-36, Sp-9, Sp-4 - evenly, Bl-23 or Ren-4, Sp-3 - tonification. Each session was 40-60 minutes, about 15 needles at a time. Any ideas about my mistakes? How can I improve it? - He already eats 5 times a day with good appetite (overheated stomach?) , but too slim and in pain, dribbling urine, tongue is red with dark yellow coating. Which way manipulate Ren 12? In Russia where I live there are no teachers, not much good books. Thank you very much. |
Nataliya Sotnikova
Username: Farit
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 22:46: | |
Dribbling urine appeared today and it's very upsetting. |
Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 08:30: | |
Let's get it one by one Nataliya. For the splenomegaly try B-20/21 in conjunction with Ren-12 and Liv-13. For the mouth dryness try L-5 combined with Ren-23 needled in 3 directions toward the tongue root. For the urine try Ren-4/6 combined with K-7 and B-23, moxa on Ren-4. Some of the points mentioned by you above have come out in gibberish... Hope this works for you, you seem to be doing a good job on this difficult case. |
Nataliya Sotnikova
Username: Farit
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 09:24: | |
Hi Shmuel. Thank you very much for your approval and for the information here which is the most detailed and really helpful.I'm asking you for any magic combinations for the acute pancreatitis? Shall I try B-20/21 evenly or in sedation for the splenomegaly and Ren-12- in sedation and Liv-13 sedation? His tests showed White Blood cells twice low than normal, is there any explanation in terms if Chinese medicine? Is it possible that I did it sedating too much Li-4,Li-11, Liv-2? Last period of time I chose among the points:Li-4, Li- 11, Li-15, Sj-14, Sp-5, St-40, St-44, Liv-13, Liv-14, Liv-2, Liv-3 - all in sedation. Ren-12 (downwards) ,Bl-20,St-36, Sp-9 - all evenly. Sp-4 - evenly + Pc-6 -in sedation. Bl-23 or Ren-4, Sp-3 - tonification. Each session was 40-60 minutes, about 15 needles at a time. Do you see any mistakes? Sorry for so many difficult question and thank you very much for sharing your experience. |
Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 21:01: | |
quote:Shall I try B-20/21 evenly or in sedation for the splenomegaly and Ren-12- in sedation and Liv-13 sedation? His tests showed White Blood cells twice low than normal, is there any explanation in terms if Chinese medicine?
These points need to be manipulated in dispersion techniques in order to invigorate Qi and blood circulation. If there exists a cold deficiency pattern as well, moxa on the needle is recommended at least on the shu points. WBC is not a recognized pattern in TCM. It may occur accompanying almost any syndrome recognized by TCM, as long as there is an inflammation involved. |
Nataliya Sotnikova
Username: Farit
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 21:36: | |
Thank you for your answer. Dribbling urine seems can be controlled. |
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