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Message |
    
Chuck Nemer
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 08:45: | |
Hi,
I wish to learn Tai chi and I am a little puzzled by the multitude of styles existing on the market... can anyone explain to me the differences between them and maybe a particular recommendation as to which one to choose?  |
almost anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 18:23: | |
Chuck,
That is a tall order! I'll give you a thumbnail sketch and recommend some websites for further research.
There are 5 main styles of T'ai Chi Ch'uan, each named after the Chinese family which teaches (or taught) it.
1. Ch'en style. The first style in seniority. A very vigorous style, with lots of low sitting postures and flashy expressions of energy. A good style for younger people because of its outer flashiness (it keeps their attention!), but older people can do quite well with it. Ch'en style T'ai Chi is number 3 in the world as far as popularity (in terms of numbers of students studying it) goes.
2. Yang style. The first member of the Yang family, the famous Yang Lu-ch'an, learned T'ai Chi from the Ch'en family almost 200 years ago. The Yang family have subsequently taught T'ai Chi around the world now for 6 generations. Yang is the most popular style in the world, with many more or less orthodox offshoots. The modern Yang style is very smooth and expansive, it is taught mostly for health, but it is a quite formidable martial art if you get the right teacher. The Yang family have a website at www.yangfamilytaichi.com
3. Wu/Hao style. Wu Yu-hsiang was a student of Yang Lu-ch'an, who in turn taught his nephew, Li I-yu, who in turn taught the Hao family where the style was preserved for several generations. Wu/Hao style is very subtle and interesting, but unfortunately it is quite rare nowadays compared to the other major styles.
4. Wu Chien-ch'uan (Wu Jianquan) style. Wu style is the second most popular style in the world, after the Yang style. Wu Chien-ch'uan's father, Wu Ch'uan-yu, learned T'ai Chi from the famous Yang Lu-ch'an in his capacity as an Imperial military officer. Wu Chien-ch'uan in his turn became a famous T'ai Chi teacher and martial artist, associated collegially for many years with the Yang and Sun familes of T'ai Chi. The Wu style is a compact "small-circle" style and quite martial in its presentation, although health benefits are emphasized as well. In many respects it is similar to Yang style, but in many respects quite different. The Wu family are still actively teaching, they have a website at www.wustyle.com
5. Sun style. Sun Lu-t'ang was a famous martial artist already when he came to learn T'ai Chi from the Hao family around the turn of the 19th-20th centuries. He eventually made his way to Beijing where he accepted a position on the faculty of the famous Yang family school where Wu Chien-ch'uan was also a teacher. The Yang brothers, Wu and Sun all taught students at the same school from 1914-1928, a seminal period for the preservation and refinement of T'ai Chi Ch'uan as an art form for modern times. Sun style is also a compact style, if not as small as Wu style, quite graceful yet martiual in its own right. Again, it is unfortunately relatively rare, so it would be a stroke of luck to find a good school. Sun's daughter recently passed away, but I believe her descendants are still teaching in China and England.
Your best bet is to find a teacher as close to one of these 5 families as possible. They have dedicated their lives to transmitting an incredibly complicated art form accurately and teaching it from the heart, and their students are certainly in a position to reap the benefits of that dedication.
Cheers,
A.A.
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Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 10:07: | |
Hi Sidney and A.A. (and all the rest, of course)
Here's a graphical chart showing the basic Tai Chi lineage geneaology, focusing on the Wudang style (of course...)
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Chuck Nemer
| | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 08:30: | |
 A.A. thank you so much for this thorough reply, I really appreciate your knowledge. I wonder if you can also tell me if there is any solid knowledge today as for the real source or origins of Tai Chi, besides the legends of Chang San Feng? Is there any ancient literature such as the Huang Di nei Jing or other ancient classica related to Tai Chi?
Chuck. |
almost anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 16:34: | |
Chuck,
I'm glad it was helpful.
Any discussion of the origins of T'ai Chi is necessarily going to have to rely on legend, since there is zero reliable documentation surviving from the period in question. There aren't any writings which mention the martial art of T'ai Chi Ch'uan which reliably predate 1850! Add to that the tradition of secrecy surrounding the teaching of the art for anyone outside of the direct generational teacher-student relationship and there is just nothing concrete to go on. So, all I have to offer is inference based on historical study of general Chinese culture, my experiences with the art and what my teachers have taught me about the art and its history.
To me, it seems that T'ai Chi is a synthesis by the Sung dynasty Neo-Confucian school of various monastic ch'i kung and martial traditions, Taoist and Buddhist. The Neo-Confucians slogan was "The three teachings are one!" and would often have paintings of Confucius, Lao Tzu and Buddha drinking out of the same vinegar jar in their schools. They were also very interested in studying the T'ai Chi symbol, ch'i and yin-yang theory in relation to Five Element (Wu Hsing) theory and I Ching. All of these theories play a strong part in the underpinnings of T'ai Chi Ch'uan as a martial and health maintenance art. Eventually, in some form or another, these theories made it to the Ch'en family, who were military officers under the Ming dynasty. I don't believe the that Ch'en family created T'ai Chi Ch'uan ex nihilo, but they certainly described and regulated it into training routines which are the basis for all of the versions we have today. The art was preserved by them for literally hundreds of years until 1820, when Yang Lu-ch'an was accepted by the family as a student. From there it was decided that Yang should go to the capital to teach the art under Imperial patronage in order to strengthen the nation, which had just lost the first Opium War to the British.
The books that I would recommend are the classics, the I Ching, Tao Te Ching, Chuang tzu and Lieh tzu. Some of the best translations of these are by Wilhelm, Hancock, Hendricks and Shaughnessy.
Happy Hunting!
-A.A. |
Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 20:31: | |
Hi A.A. we all admire your contribution and are grateful for your posting in this forum. I gather that you are a Chen follower... 
Can you tell us a little more about the Chen style?
I myself practice the Wudang hand form. |
Sidney Rosenberg
Username: Sidney
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 21:05: | |
A. A. I was fascinated by your thumbnail sketch (description) of the different Tai Chi styles which I have both you and Chuck to thank for. However, I was disappointed that you didn't make any mention of the Wudang style which is a very popular Tai Chi style in my part of world. I believe this style has links with the three Tai Chi families of Chen, Yang and Wu that you mention. I would be most interested in reading your comments on this style too. You also talk about the general popularity of one style against another but as a (what appears from your comments) well versed individual on the subject of Tai Chi you make no mention of a personal preference - if you agree, I would find this of interest too. With thanks to both you and Shmuel for detailed, interesting and thought provoking remarks following my Yin Yang posting of today (19/12/03). Sidney |
almost anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 21:56: | |
Greetings,
I didn't mention the Wudang form because I really don't know enough about it to say anything worthwhile! The same with some other relatively famous styles such as Cheng Man-ch'ing style, Kuang-p'ing style or the dozens of Chinese govt. competition forms, I'm just not familiar enough with them to give a helpful opinion to anyone, I'm afraid. I'd be interested to hear something about them, though.
Myself, I am a long-time student of the Wu family. My Sifu is the great-grandson of Wu Chien-ch'uan, and his uncle, my Sikung, is Wu Chien-ch'uan's grandson. They have always taught that we should respect other schools, even if they are demonstrably different in something we find vitally important. While we are good at what we do, who knows? They may be, too.
Cheers,
A.A. |
Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 22:39: | |
This is getting interesting A.A., we'll eventually find out that we are relatives... Wudang style was originally tought in Hong Kong by Sifu Cheng Tin Hung. He himself studied the Wu style Tai Chi from Cheng Win Kwong (his uncle) who was a student of Wu Chien Chuan. His particular style of Wudang was transmitted to him by a buddhist monk named Chai Man Hun who came from Mt. Wudang in mainland China. The most prominent successors of this style in Europe are Dan Docherty and Ian Cameron from England. Our style is also a small-circle compact form that puts a great emphasis on legs/feet movement, both in the Form and combat. I think it is one of the most graceful Tai Chi styles, but I might be prejudiced of course. Wudang style emphasizes martial atmosphere in its hand-form stances, movements and gestures. |
almost anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 04:59: | |
OK, now I know what style you mean! Excellent. I've seen a few photos of Dan, and I can tell you what he does is very similar indeed to what we do. We'd probably be able to get through an entire 108 form together with very little variance between us.
So to answer Sidney's question about my opinion of Wudang style, for the purposes of the thumbnail sketch above they would be included under Wu Chien-ch'uan style.
Cheers,
A.A. |
Sidney Rosenberg
Username: Sidney
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 10:06: | |
Thanks to Shmuel and AA for filling me in on the what and wherefore of the Wudang Tai Chi style and as a student of this form, making me feel good about it.
However, as a new comer (but a fairly well-read one) to the world of Qi-gong, Tai Chi and Yi Chuan, I can’t help reflecting that if the basics of the “Three Intentful Corrections (Regulations or Adjustments) to posture, breath and consciousness are an integral part of one’s practice, then it really does not matter what form one adheres to. My personal experience over the past few years of practice is that if a meditative awareness of the “corrections” along with an intuitive “free-flow” or “natural-flow” approach to one’s own Qi necessities is encouraged, then Qi practices are beneficial.
A. A. Please forgive my inquisitiveness but am I correct in assuming that the ground under your Tai Chi Horse Stance is Australian.
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almost anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 21:49: | |
Greetings,
Actually, I'm in North America these days, although I'm sure the weather in Australia is much better than the weather here right now.
I'll agree, good T'ai Chi is good T'ai Chi. If the spine is straight, the breathing in the abdomen and the coordination unified with the natural alignments of the body with the musculature relaxed through all one's motions, all the time, one has then succeeded in retraining the physical. Any motion, any exertion, from that physical state is automatically T'ai Chi Ch'uan. The forms, pushing hands, ch'i kung, weapons work, sparring, point work, etc. are all methods to achieve that state. Very few people ever get that far with it, but I feel a responsibility to try, if only out of gratitude to my teachers.
Cheers,
A.A. |
Sidney Rosenberg
Username: Sidney
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 09:54: | |
Thanks once again for your response A. A. The "cheers" you end your postings with led me to Australia but then it could have originated over a glass of Guinness in the UK or USA too, I suppose. You certainly seem most knowledgeable on the subject of Tai Chi and here I go with suppositions again; I imagine that you yourself instruct others, apart from practicing out of gratitude to your own teachers. In your posting, you don’t (or maybe I missed the point) give emphasis to the meditative element in Tai Chi. I arrived at Tai Chi by way of Qi Gong and for right or wrong, relate to Tai Chi as a mind/body discipline with transcendental possibilities. Am I wrong in thinking that even as a martial arts discipline, Tai Chi is part of the world of Qi cultivation and as meditation in movement a way to greater philosophical understanding in the Daoist sense? |
almost anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 20:24: | |
Greetings,
Well, yes >blushes< I am a TCC teacher. I currently do about 20 classes a week, including 3 in which I myself am learning from my seniors, it never ends!
There is so much to T'ai Chi Ch'uan that I haven't really gotten around to the meditative aspect here yet, although I did mention the ch'i kung that we train in passing. Also, my teacher's family have historically stressed its presentation as a martial art to the public, which could also explain why I've been on that subject more than others. The meditative aspect of TCC does inform the entire art form. Every single intention, externally or internally, is eventually seen as a meditation.
T'ai Chi Ch'uan has been characterized for me as like a tripod, the three legs being health, meditation and martial art. With any of the legs missing, the tripod won't stand up, you no longer have T'ai Chi Ch'uan. In our school, they are experienced sequentially by our 3 levels of students; without their health (beginning level), how well can they meditate (intermediate level)? Without a thorough background in meditation, how will they be able to stay calm enough for their 'soft' style to work when they are physically attacked by a 100kg maniac (advanced level)? For the practitioner, well trained with a lot of experience, each leg holds an equal weight.
Myself, I read the Taoist and Buddhist classics as a kid, and was intrigued by them. Yet, it wasn't until I had quite a few years experience under my belt with T'ai Chi that I actually started to understand them a bit, however. My teacher says "T'ai Chi Ch'uan IS Taoism, if you study it well you will be able to write your own book soon enough!"
Cheers,
A.A. |
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Tai chi style....?