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Eric Waltemate D.C.
Username: Eric

Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 17:29:   
What does any one know about this system under the former "Master" JR Worsley?
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Shmuel Halevi
Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 21:21:   
You may read all about it here:
http://www.yinyanghouse.com/chinesetheory/theory/classical_fiveelement.html
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Eric Waltemate D.C.
Username: Eric

Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 17:13:   
Dr. Halevi,

I took a 512 hour Class of this system, but the "tradition" of it all is... let's just say murky.

I didn't know if anyone knew more about if it was really classical OR NOT.
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Shmuel Halevi
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 19:13:   
Well Eric, I can't say that I don't share your feelings about this to some extent. I know that quite a portion of Worsley and his followers doctrine is based on interpretations of the old scripts, which does not echo most of the most eminent ancient scholars understanding of the same writings... Take for example the theory of the Window-of-the-sky group of points and their allegedly psychic influence, as well as other interpretations. Sometimes, it seems, those Western trends are based more likely on a wishful thinking rather on solid evidence or facts.
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Eric Waltemate D.C.
Username: Eric

Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 22:27:   
And what about the "spiritual" connotations of each and every point?

Supposedly every single point gives something good to the "spirit" of the person. Like Li Gou for when a person who is a Wood "Causitive Factor" is angry because he has too many irritations in his life.
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P.T. Ferrance, L.Ac.
Username: Fer

Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 07:07:   
Who offered the 5E class you took? Was it in the Worsley tradition? I have
had Worsley 5E practitioners myself and have found the treatments in the
hands of someone who knew what they were doing to be quite helpful. Have
you considered joining a 5E list? It might help you understand it a bit
more?

Of course there are a number of 5E traditions. Worsley is just one... a
modern one at that.

P.T.
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Eric Waltemate D.C.
Username: Eric

Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 18:43:   
I took a class that was sanctioned by the Worsley Institute and one weekend was taught by Master Judy Worsley herself (as JR is dead.)

I have also gotten tremendous relief from the system.

I was feeling "down" one day during the session. I was aggravated, tired, queasy, bored, etc... No physical symptoms noted, only emotional ones.

As soon as they burned 5 cones of moxa and needled KI 25, I giggled like a school girl.

There is something to 5-E Acupuncture, but it doesn't click with what I've been taught in TCM or Japanese Acupuncture.

The points are different from both Chinese and Japanese points.

Another thing is the CF. If Asian thought is acausal, how can there be a Causitive Factor? There are 5 Phases not 1. What do you think?
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P.T. Ferrance, L.Ac.
Username: Fer

Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 07:07:   
I don't think you can make Worsley 5E click with anything else. It is a
paradigm unto itself. I was taught to think about these things as filters.
If one filter doesn't work try another. It is a whole other mind set... and
one that works.

If you are asking about Asian thought as a 'way of thinking' I cannot
comment. If you are asking about Oriental Medicine, I can only comment that
I have never thought of it as being acausal so I don't have a problem with
the concept of a Causitive Factor. Basically, I was taught that Oriental
Medicine is like an old Chinese man who pulling a cart behind him keeps
adding things as he goes along the road. He then has many things to work
with if he needs them. I have always felt comfortable with that metaphor.

By the way, where was this course offered?

P.T.
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Eric Waltemate D.C.
Username: Eric

Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 16:05:   
P.T.

It was offered in Santa Monica, CA.

Going back to your quote:

"Of course there are a number of 5E traditions. Worsley is just one... a
modern one at that."

Please explain that comment, especially the part about being modern.

Thanks,

Eric

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P.T. Ferrance, L.Ac.
Username: Fer

Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 06:16:   
As it was explained to me, the Worsley Classical 5E started with JR's
interpretation of "classical" Chinese acupuncture. That being said, it is
his interpretation of that material and it came about in the 20th century.

There are a number of 5E traditions. Off the top of my head there is the
Japanese tradition, Koryo also has a 5E protocol. I was also taught a 4 & 6
needle Korean system that is based on the 5E as well as the the older
Chinese (not TCM) that my teachers told me one could still find teachers of
in China (but that was years ago). I believe Dr. Holmes has a CEU course on
5E diagnosis but I have not studied it so I cannot be sure.

I hope this is helpful.

P.T.
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Jan
Username: Jan

Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 09:32:   
Command Points for 5 Element Acupuncture

http://www.jjedryka.net/5ElementCommand/5_Element-2.html
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Jan
Username: Jan

Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 12:27:   
Jack Worsley was one of 4 (that I know of) that were accepted as students in the 1930's by wu wei ping in Taiwan. The study notes were later published by Msary Austin (one of the students).
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Jan
Username: Jan

Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 12:28:   
The link that I gave earlier is now:
http://www.jan.000a.biz/health/pulse_diagnosis/index.html
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Shmuel Halevi
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 12:33:   
Thank you Jan.
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Jan
Username: Jan

Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2013 - 16:58:   
I've updated the website dealing with the lecture notes of the wu wei ping students.
http://www.jan.000a.biz/health/wuweiping/index.html
The site can be downloaded as a searchable database file by right click of the link and saving the link as a zip file. Unpack the executable file.
Enjoy!
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Shmuel Halevi
Posted on Monday, August 05, 2013 - 12:46:   
Thank you very much for this contribution Jan. It is indeed a worthy compilation full of invaluable information. Good work.

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