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Message |
    
Gregory Koniecka
Username: Gregory
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 18:25: | |
Dear Mr. Shmuel Halevi,
I've read a lot of your posts, especially these concerning vitiligo. It's very nice to read all your professional responces to asked queststions.
I've recognized on my body 7 months ago white spots (first on my penis). After some time some spots showed on my hands and face(close to mouth).
I'm 28 years old.
As advised by doctors I started using protopic(0,1%). Additionally I found information about vitiligotabs(based on chinese herbs). Please find ingredients used for these tablets:
Psoralea fruit, astragalus root, chinese peony root without bark, cnidium fruit, chinese salvia Root and Rhizome, Tribulus Fruit, Chinese dodder seed, Fo-Ti Root, Tumeric Root, Bal-zhu Atractylodes Rhizome, Dong-Quai Root, Seaflower Flower, Fragrant Angelica Root, Cassia Twig.
After few months I don't see any major diffrences... Spots seem not to extend(for a time being).
I would like to kindly ask you for an advise how I should proceed with the treatment. Currently I use Protopic and these tablets(12 per day).
Lately I have been told that perhaps I could try acupuncture to fight with vitiligo.
I leave in Belgium. Therefore It's not easy to get in contact directly with you...
Perhaps you could advise some other herbs and indicate where I could buy them?
Update: Lately(on 6th of September) I visited for a first time acupuncture doctor. She does not have any experience in treating vitiligo. However, I printed some of discussions which were here and on other sides. She gave me a first session...
What is also intresting I am in contact with doctor Codrut Tutu from Romania(www.pirasan.ro). He is treating vitiligo with acupuncture.
Would you say that if I will be visiting not experienced in vitiligo acupuncture doctor it can be usuless?
Thank you very much in advance for any help or suggestions. And also for inviting me to this forum.
With best regards,
Greg |
Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 21:14: | |
Hi Gregory. I actually can't add more valuable information about this besides that what you have already read on this forum. Of course, if you go to an experienced practitioner you enhance your chance of recovery, yet, I have no information about Chinese med. practitioners in Belgium. |
Jan Jedryka
Username: Jan
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 21:26: | |
I have seen, leukoderma, as I know it, treated in the Orient using a therapeutic paradigm similar to the five element theory of Acupuncture. Having understood the etiology, I can say that yes, it can be successfully treated with acupuncture. The practitioner must be comfortable treating skin conditions using 5 element acupuncture. Kidney and liver are to be considered prime drainage organs in it's successful treatment. It is, however, considered a chronic disease, so careful work may need to be done as indicated by other posts. Because the 5 Element paradigm is such a useful approach to treatment, outside the restraints of prescriptive therapeutics, I can say that no treatment based on this paradigm is a useless treatment. If however you do get stuck and you need a different perspective my email:jan.jedryka@bigpond.com
Jan. |
Gregory Koniecka
Username: Gregory
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 09:48: | |
Good morning gentleman,
First of all I would like to thank you for your support on this forum.
What I would like to share with you is further inforamtion about vitiligo treatment offered by Romanian doctor. I have been in concact with him for a while and have been provided with his prices of acupuncture sessions.
So, for each, one hour session practitioner wants 4500 EURO in the first 6 months of treatment and 2500 EURO respectively in the following 18 months.
This price include some herbal specifics. If a patient cannot afford such a costly treatment he proposes only herbals, however, it costs 30500 EURO for a 2 years treatment.
I cannot afford for a such expensive treatment. The doctor says that he does have a huge number of patients.
Average price for an acupuncture session in western Europe is cheaper around 80 times.
Taking all these facts into consideration I would like to ask you for some suggestions how I should proceed further with the treatment. I am trying to find anyone who could help me in Europe (it can be any country within Europe).
Please let me know if you're aware of any experienced acupuncture doctor in Europe.
I will also try to find someone by myself and will keep you updated about the progress.
Dear Jan I'd like to underline and thank you for your input which is very valuable to me. Certainly it will help on better understanding acupuncture as well on looking for an acupuncture practitioner.
Thank you and best regards,
Gregory |
Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 12:38: | |
Hi Gregory. Can you please ask your Romanian doctor if he would take me for a partner ? If these are the prices of treatment in Romania, I'll move there tomorrow.
Now seriously, I can refer you to some practitioners that I know of in England (also Europe ?), but have no other Europian colleagues that I know of. If you consider England, let me know.
In the meantime, why not go to a herbal store and buy some dried Dandelion (herba Taraxaci, Pu Gong Ying). It has frequently showed good results with vitiligo as a single herb treatment. |
Kevin Grey
Username: Kevin
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 11:17: | |
The British Acupuncture Council website has a practitioner listed for Poland. I don't know if this is of any use, but here are her details anyway.
Ewa Panak
ul. Moniuszki 24/18
43 – 400 Cieszyn
Cieszyn
Poland
Tel: (0048) 78 356 1234
Mob: 07891 325779
Email: epanak@ yahoo.com
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Jan Jedryka
Username: Jan
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 11:48: | |
OMG Gregoy,
You told me a story that made me say Aghhhh!
I simply had to shake my head.
I thouroughly endorse what Shmuel has to say. Herbal tratment will support organs and allow the drainage of toxins. Acupuncture can take you one step further, to activate, to balance the energy of life to repair the damage that the toxins did. Vitilago is considered a chronic disease, incurable, by some reconning, that's not true, as others know, but requiring circumspect treatment, certainly there is no universal "specific" at this time. Part of the reason for being cautious is that untill the physician sees the "whole person" all the diagnostic criteria are not present.
Jan.
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Jan Jedryka
Username: Jan
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 12:18: | |
I have some historic information that might be of intrest here. In the 1920's/30's Wu Wei Ping of Taiwan trained some students I know 3 of those students who have distinguished themselves. Jack Worsley was amongst them. He returned to England. I see he has "maintained the faith" and has established teaching institutions around the 5 element paradigm. I would consider his students able to work outside of prescriptive paradigms. Thats the type of acupuncturist who is able to administer useful treatments every time he picks up the needles.
Lastly, like you are entitled to know the specifics of medical treatment you are entitled to know the specifics of each and every needle that is placed in your body, without fear or favour. |
Emma Beatriz Villegas
Username: Emma
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 14:12: | |
Hello Gregory, I think those romanian prices can't be true in a country whose linving standards are lower than in the rest of the UE, I think they do not have Euro yet. If you live in Belgium, the wisest I can suggest it to check the following site of your own country. http://www.acupunctuur-baf.be/ Good luck.
mym |
Gregory Koniecka
Username: Gregory
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 22:23: | |
Dear all,
As always I do thank you for your answers!
Following information placed on the Romanian website I found information about invented(with US patent number: 6451358)specific for vitiligo in the United States.
Details:
Inventors: Carlos Manuel Miyares Cao Ileana Hollands Barca Reina Pimienta Lopez
Agents: LACKENBACH SIEGEL, LLP
Assignees:
Origin: SCARSDALE, NY US
IPC8 Class: AA61K31401FI
USPC Class: 514423
Link to patent docs:
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080207733
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6451358.html
This specific is based on the hydroalcoholic extracts.
Have you heared anything about this? Would you say that it could be something helpful?
Thanks a lot for suggestions.
Best regards,
Greg
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Jan Jedryka
Username: Jan
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 14:40: | |
When I do a HDD drive search for leucoderma/vitilago I come up with remedies - that I could probably patent as a specific. That's not so hard. When I look at the remedy it speaks to me of "the process" I do not look at it as a specific for the illness. If you look at any remedy as a specific you are only seeing the tip of the iceburg. You are much better off, beleive me, in taking our advice, draining through the liver and kidneys until you are given access to the virus which is located not just on your skin but in your nervous system. The skin symptom is the red flag at the top of the iceburg, the best idea is to melt the iceburg not knock off the the red flag with a silver bullet. That way your children do not inherit something worse to deal with. Now you've had the hard words so listen to the hints given to you by some of the best unfettered minds on on health. Yes there are specifics but given at the right stage of the process to the correct constitutional type. Drain for 2-4 weeks have some concomitant treatment from someone who works with a tridosa, 5 element, or homeopathic miasmatic paradigm, and drain again until it diappears. A specific, patented or not, is antihippocratic.
To understand what I am saying here read the daily prayer of the physician composed by Maimonides:
http://members.aol.com/rnmlc/spiny.html |
Gregory Koniecka
Username: Gregory
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 15:24: | |
Dear all,
I've been asking Belgian Acupunctors Federation if they know anybody who can help with vitiligo(I have also called myself acupuncture therapist from their list).
Most answers are:
- I cannot help you
- It's very difficult to treat, don't have knowledge
- It CANNOT be treated with acupuncture
So, the outcome from te BAF is not that optimistic. However, there is one acupuncture specialist which is now in China and haven't asked her about opinion.
Anyway, if I cannot get any help from belgian specialists I would like kindly ask you for contacts...
Dear Mr. Shmuel Halevi you've mentioned earlier here on this forum about your colleagues...(you can use my email address if you prefer).
Thanks again for your outstanding help!!
BR Greg |
Shmuel Halevi
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 16:10: | |
Sent you an Email  |
Jan Jedryka
Username: Jan
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 17:37: | |
Greg,
Did you read the daily Prayer of Maimonides the physician. There are then housand times tenthousand organs and there is a diease for every one of them.
Have you have seen Geeks text injunction to RTFM. Well TTFH (Take The Herbs).
I for one have seen vitilago successfully treated, I have talked to the attending physician and am aware of the principles of the treatment.
You will not get better advice than
________________________________________________________________________________ ___________
"In the meantime, why not go to a herbal store and buy some dried Dandelion (herba Taraxaci, Pu Gong Ying)."
________________________________________________________________________________ ___________
They are golden words, far more profound than you seem to give credit.
Believe someone who has cured incurable skin conditions in the face of "superior opinion"....
Now go away and don't come back till you've been on those herbs for at least 4 weeks.
A poster "Kevin" suggested an acupuncturist in Poland - so what's the problem? The question you should be asking is - can you do 5 element acupuncture? Not "can you cure vitilago?" Ask her to treat you on 5 element principles. After you have taken the herbs for a time.
Every correctly trained acupuncturist starts his/her training with 5 elements and will end there. Because there are ten thousand times ten thousand diseases, and there is no way you can have a prescription for every ill. With acupuncture, etc. you don't have to know the name of the illness in order to treat the patient and all things being equal get the best possible effect.
On this forum you are tapping in to hundreds of years of experience and good will.
The words drain the liver and kidneys is to be interpreted in the herbal sense of supplementing the action of those organs in order to drain toxins. To strengthen the organs to take a heavier toxic load ie. neurotoxins or endotoxins - for which acupuncture is well suited to handle.
Stop running around looking for a "specifics" because that's a dangerous thing to do. In this case specifics are touted by unscrupulous charlatans. This is not an opinion this is professional insight.
Listen to what you have been told by this forum and TYFH.
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Jan Jedryka
Username: Jan
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 19:58: | |
Greg,
I admire your persistance it bodes well for a cure and you have been responcible for shaking some cobwebs out of an old head.
I saw a case of vitilago successfully treatede in sudhir nagar in kolkuta. Bhenytosh Bhattacharya uses only 40 homoeopathic remedies he sees his patients every week he gives them 2 doese of the remedy. In the 4 hours I spent with him he treated 250 patients and showed me his successful leukoderma case.
There is something to learn here seemingly intractable skin diseases can be treated with simple remedies. NO problem.
1. Use the organs that have been traditionally associated with drainage and elimination. Liver, Kidneys, Bowel, Lungs. Any treatment of skin conditions that does not involve these organs is doomed to failure and will kill your patient.
2. The cyle of treatment has to be sufficiently long to allow skin changes using only these organs of elimination in your treatment. That means even if your treatment is impeccable you will not see any change, nor will you be in a position to assess your treatment under 1 month, perhapse as long as 3 months. So you need to get it right first off because it will be that period of time before you can assess your success or failure.
3. Prepare well by strengthening those organs of elimination implied by the etiology of your skin lesion.
As an example the case of leukoderma that I saw was syphalitic in origin (do not equate this with the disease by that name) but what is implied is that it is a neurotoxin that may very well be an intracellular. So your treatment needs to be tailored for this etiology.
As has been correctly observed leukoderma responds to the liver and kidneys being the organs of elimination.
After supporting organs of elimination of your toxin use 5 element acupuncture - the pulses will be sufficiently clearly read to gain new insight into any new procedure or protocol that needs to be followed.
4. The treatment in the case of leukoderma, should be designed to loosen the toxin from the nervous system and assist the formation of new cellular structures. 5 element acupuncture is well positioned to do this.
5. Never ever use local treatments on skin lesions, especially long standing, chronic or intractable lesions. You risk the danger of interference in elimination pathways and fixing the disease into the intracellular structures - if indeed it is intracellular. S 5 element acupuncture is the most efficient way of treating this scenario. Do not use needles, moxa near local lesions and be extraordinary circumspect as to what type of cream you may or may not use, better not is possible. I will be interested from learning from leared acupuncturists here - but this is my opinion.
6. After using acupuncture to help loosen the toxins from intracellular and intercellular fluids - continue elimination work.
7. Assess progress after a month and if there is no sensed or tangible improvement - consult.
I hope this insight will prove useful. Acupuncture can be used to assist the treatment of chronic and intractable skin lesion if those very simple principles are respected.
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Anonymous
Username: Emma
Registered: N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 20:21: | |
Hi Greg, See this page --> http://www.acupunctureandherbs.co.uk/Treatments_Skin.htm
about "The Treatment of Acne, Eczema, Psoriasis and Vitiligo with Chinese Medicine". It's in Great Britain and prices are shown.
mym |
Gregory Koniecka
Username: Gregory
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 00:34: | |
Dear all,
I would like to thank to all of you for all suggestions and information. I belive that this forum is unique and I wouldn't get all these suggestions and facts elsewhere.
I will proceed for some time with the treatment and will keep you updated about the results.
Emma thank you very much for the contacts you provided me with!
Best regards,
Greg
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Vitiligo - 28 years old. Please answer!